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5 Conversations That Broke Our Frames This Week

My First Million

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  • Persistence Pays Off
    • Justin Caldbeck, a successful investor, flew to Chicago to meet the Grubhub founders after failing to reach them via email or phone.
    • This persistence led to an early investment in the company. Transcript: Sam Parr Did? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I know. You boys growing up, friends and hosting things. In the city. You drove to the city and did this. I drove to the city. Yes. This is true facts. And so we go there and there’s a guy there who I’m friends with. His name is Justin. Justin Caldbank. And Justin is a tremendous investor. He was an investor early on in like Grubhub, Snapchat, Stitch Fix, like boom, like just like a bunch of companies that have done really well. So let me tell you the story. So I was talking to him about some of his big win investments. So I’ll tell you a quick one. So there was a Grubhub one. I was like, how’d you get into Grubhub? He’s like, oh, Grubhub was a, he’s like, it was a funny story. Like they were doing well, but nobody knew them. And I don’t think they had raised much money yet. And I tried to get a cold, emailed them. I called, cold called them. I called the office, couldn’t get ahold of them. So he’s like, so I just flew to Chicago. I just hung out in the lobby until I bumped into the guys. And I was like, hey, guys, I’m just really a believer in this thing. Sorry to bother you, but I just really believe in this thing. Ends up doing that deal. So, okay. Classic meet cute. (Time 0:01:45)
  • Seeing the Unseen
    • Justin Caldbeck recognized Snapchat’s potential as a messaging app, not just a photo-sharing platform.
    • He compared its user engagement metrics to iMessage and WhatsApp, revealing its true value. Transcript: Sam Parr So, I was like, how’d the Snapchat one happen? And he told this great story. He goes, I met Evan. And he’s like, I will just never forget meeting Evan. He’s like, I walked out of that meeting being like, this guy, he’s one of them. He’s like, one of the people that’s going to build this like legendary company. He’s at the time, I think he was still a student at Stanford, a student college. And I go, was Snapchat taking off? Was it like a rocket ship? He goes, no, no. It was like really small. He’s like, it had maybe like 100, 150,000 users, wasn’t growing fast. And everybody on the outside viewed it as this like this silly little thing. It was like this toy. It’s like, oh, it just used for disappearing photos must be for inappropriate pictures, or it’s just a stupid college thing. And he’s like, so I was like, so how did you invest? And he tells the story. So he’s like, you know, first I met Evan, I heard him out. And he, he shared the story that he’s like, Snapchat, people think it’s about photos. And when they hear photos, they think about Facebook and Instagram. It’s like permanent public photos that are for your memories. And he’s like, but actually we use photos for communication. It’s like a back and forth. And so Justin goes, hmm. So it’s like messaging. He’s like, yeah, it’s messaging. He goes, okay. And so he goes home and he does some research. He goes, I think everybody’s been comparing this to Instagram and Facebook. And because of that, the metrics don’t look as good. But if you compare this to iMessage, I wonder what this looks like or WhatsApp. So he hustles and he gets in touch with somebody at Apple. And he’s like, hey, I just have a good question for you. If somebody sends an iMessage, how many, what percentage of them send an iMessage every day for the next seven days? And they run the query for him. Yeah, like if you use iMessage, you’re going to use it every day That’s just how you use messaging apps. He asked somebody at WhatsApp, same question. He asked somebody, then he gets in touch with somebody from Instagram. And he’s like, Hey, for Instagram, if you post a photo, what are the odds you post a photo, you know, the next seven days? They’re like, well, super low. Right. He’s like, okay, what about even just using the app? Like, that’s just reasonable, healthy number. And he goes back to Snapchat, he asked him the number. And Evan, like, he’s like, I don’t know, let me look it up. He looks it up. He’s got the iMessage number. And he’s like, this is communication. And he’s like, and nobody, you know, nobody else was really that eager to invest. And he was like, I got to go all in on this thing. And sure enough, he did. Shaan Puri And you hung out with him and he told you that story at dinner? (Time 0:02:48)
  • Ocean is the Next Space
    • Will O’Brien, an ocean tech entrepreneur, believes the ocean presents vast untapped potential similar to space.
    • He is building a company in this emerging field and sees it as the “next space.” Transcript: Sam Parr Yeah, there’s a couple guys. So there’s one guy, Will, who’s coming on the podcast. Will O’Brien, he’s this Irish guy. And he’s coming on the podcast because he had this sentence that caught my attention. He goes, the ocean is the next space. Ocean is the next space? What are you talking about? He goes, well, you know how recently all these, you know, there’s a bunch of investment now in space tech. So SpaceX, obviously first, but then after that, there’ve been more and more companies that have been funded, Varda and others that are all about rockets and satellites and getting To space, mining asteroids, mining minerals, whatever it is. And he goes, the ocean is the next space. Like the ocean is this other vast, mostly unexplored, mostly untouched by tech space. And he’s building an ocean tech company. And he told me about four or five other ocean tech companies. And it was a finger to the lips. You got to come on the podcast and talk about them there. Don’t waste this at a dinner, okay? That’s (Time 0:05:09)
  • The Power of Mom Influencers
    • Shaan Puri visited Steve Houghton’s family, discovering that Houghton’s wife and daughters are famous Instagram influencers.
    • Their success highlights the profitability of catering to “middle America moms.” Transcript: Shaan Puri All right. So we had this guy on the Money Wise podcast like a month or something ago. And he’s like in his 60s. His name is Steve Howden. He’s a billionaire. I had a great time talking to him on the podcast. And on the podcast, he was talking about making money and all that traditional career shit. Sam Parr He’s a billionaire from what, by the way? Shaan Puri Yeah. So he is worth, he says it on the podcast, he’s worth something like $2 billion. He made his initial money doing door-to sales, selling something. And I forget what he sold, but he made like 100 grand. And with that 100 grand, the savings and loan crisis hit. Do you know what that was in the 80s? I don’t completely understand it but basically a bunch of cheap land became available he got leveraged to the tits and bought all this property and that made three million the three Million he then bought some storage units that turned into like nine and then using that nine he bought a bunch of they say oil and gas i don’t know like these dallas guys like say oil and Gas but basically it means you buy uh lease rights meaning you like, not going to lie, haven’t heard a word since you said leverage to the tits. I’ve just been waiting for us to talk about that. Quick break. Sam Parr Quick HubSpot ad break. Discuss that. I kind of liked it. Well done. I’m trying to get on. Was it too much? Or was it okay? Shaan Puri I’m trying to get on. It was like, you know, today I’m going to wear a turtleneck and I might try to say leverage to the tits. It’s like getting a new haircut. Learning affirmations. Yeah. I can pull this off. Leverage to the tits is my version of having bangs. You know what I mean? All right. Sam Parr So makes a bunch of money, oil and glass and land. Got it. Okay. So you didn’t just talk to him on the podcast. Then you went and you did an absolutely normal human thing to do after the podcast. You invited yourself to his family reunion or something. Shaan Puri Well, after the pod, I was like, could I come over? Like, can I come and just like hang out with you? And he was like, yes, absolutely you can. And so basically he lives in Dallas. He has this huge mansion. I know that because I look the way I look. A lot of people think that I know about like skiing, but I don’t. But he was like, I have a ski in, ski out house, which I didn’t even know what that meant. I’ve never skied in my life. And I had to like figure all this out. But we went to Utah at his huge mansion. It was a ski in, ski out thing, which if you do ski, that’s like a fancy thing or whatever. And I learned a few things. The first thing that I learned, I had no idea, but his three daughters are famous. So his wife, or sorry, his wife and two daughters are famous. So his wife is Jen Houghton. She’s got an Instagram called Turtle Creek Lane. I think she has 1.5 million subscribers and basically your followers. And basically what she does is she decorates their home in the most crazy, over-the way. So for example, for Christmas, it looks like a Christmas dollhouse, but that’s her real house. And so she got famous doing that via Instagram and then brought in the other two daughters to do their shtick, which I actually don’t know what their shtick is, but I know that a million People follow them because when I was around them, I was like, they’re just living and people just love watching them. Were (Time 0:07:25)
  • Intentional Living and Family
    • Shaan Puri observed the Houghton family’s strong values and intentional living, particularly their emphasis on positivity and family time.
    • He suggests acquiring a large home as a “life hack” for increased family interaction. Transcript: Sam Parr They just like snapping content constantly or what? Shaan Puri No, that’s funny. They weren’t. I mean, they did a bit, but it wasn’t any different than anyone else who has like a thousand followers, you know, or like it was not obnoxious. And they actually had mentioned that they worked with you on a company you invested in. And they were like his company that he invested in. They did a great job of hooking us up. So you they knew you. Sam Parr One of them, yeah, for sure. But I didn’t know, maybe from their, I think they do a good job in their, the daughter’s like personal content. It doesn’t look like I’m the daughter of a billionaire type of thing, right? It’s like super relatable. It’s fun. It’s, you know, it’s easy to follow. Easy to like. Shaan Puri So I didn’t know that they were like these famous people. The second thing I didn’t really know, I didn’t know they were Mormon, but they weren’t just Mormon. He was like King Mormon. Like he’s on the board of BYU. And so I think I learned this the first morning when Sarah and I get up at 7am to go hang out and everyone were sitting around the kitchen and we’re just kind of like patiently waiting for Them to get the coffee ready. And you’re just vaping rudely in the kitchen. I’m just like sitting in this kitchen and we’re like, do you guys do coffee? What’s up with that? They had to tell me that they don’t drink coffee. And they’re like, but we went and bought coffee beans to accommodate you. And we have this coffee machine. We even went and bought a coffee machine. We don’t know how to use it, but it’s like over here. And like, they had to like, and like, I don’t even know if they bought the right beans. Like they literally had never gone through this experience, which is like, imagine like not knowing like, do you get the beans, do you get the grounds? You know, like how does what device you need to ground the beans? Like, is this the right machine? Or is this like a, there’s five different types of machines they didn’t know. And they went to accommodate us, which was hilarious. But what I learned with the Instagram stuff is, dude, middle America moms, who’s their following, so much more profitable, profitable than like comedy, comedy bits for millennials Or Gen Z. You know what I mean? They kill it. And they would post these gummies that they got, or this candy, or this other widget that someone had sent them. And they were showing me how many of the products that they sell. And it was the craziest thing I’ve ever seen. It was like, the people listening to this podcast, they’re like, I want to do things for the trader economy. No, just do it for Lisa in Oklahoma. Sam Parr Mother economy. That’s who you want to sell to. Shaan Puri Oh my God. It was, it was crazy. They were like super Mormon. And I, um, I’m, I’m not into religion. I don’t like religion in particular, uh, particularly, but I learned a lot. And the one thing that I learned was they like explicitly stated their values. So like, you know, when you’re with your family and you’ll make jokes with your sister, like, yeah, you know, like you’ll bring her down. You’ll be like, hey, you said you’re on a diet. Why are you eating that? Or like, you just like mess with her, like just teasing. There was not one bring them down joke. And I was like, and I asked him about that. I’m like, you guys haven’t made fun of each other once. And they were like, well, like, you know, we’re taught in this religion that you got to treat like, you know, you got to be Christ-like and like, he doesn’t make fun of people. So we don’t make fun of people. And they had like all these, like, I would ask them a variety of different questions. Why don’t you do this? Why don’t you do that? And they all had very explicit answers. It wasn’t ever like, it just feels good. Or I don’t know, we just kind of do. It was all well mapped out. And I thought that was really cool to be super intentional about living. When I asked them, I was like, why don’t you guys drink coffee? And they’re like, well, we’re taught not to try not to be addicted to things or try not to overly rely on stuff. And I was like, all right, that’s a good reason. And so it was crazy to learn all that stuff. But here’s, let me tell you this last thing that I learned from this family. It was like a 15,000 square foot house. And I learned that, you know, you’ve heard me talk on this pod, and I think you feel the same way about like owning stuff in a big house. It’s kind of like, it’s like, oh, that’s a lot of work. I don’t want to do that. Dude, it’s such a life hack for like being around your family. Like, it’s the greatest ever. And I’ve noticed this amongst this family, but also a bunch of other really wealthy families that if you can acquire a home that’s big enough for your grandkids and everyone’s super Comfortable to stay there, they will want to stay there more. And thus, you will spend more time with your family. And we didn’t have a private chef. We didn’t do anything. Almost the entire weekend was us just sitting around a kitchen table and we like cooked our own meals and just hung out. And it was like the way to live. Sam Parr And that’s like awkward being at their like family reunion or what was, dude, they were so, they were like, come on in. And like, even more awkward. They’re so nice. Shaan Puri Also, they were so nice. I just think these guys are nice all the time. And I asked them, I was like, why are you so nice? And I was like, why do you guys have so much fun? They had activities. They’re like, let’s go in the cold plunge and then get into the hot tub. And then we’re going to go do… They had activities planned that they all did as a family. I was like, what are you guys doing? And they were like, we just want fun to be the center of everything we do. Sam Parr This is amazing. This is like the opposite of like, you know, when you’re a bad kid in school and they take you to like jail and they want to like shock value, like show you what your life could look like if You just keep going down this path. Yeah. I just got like hugged really hard. This is like the opposite. You’re like, hey, you want to see what a really healthy family dynamic looks like? I’m going to take you there for a weekend immersion. (Time 0:10:38)
  • Life on Network Effects
    • James Currier advises viewing life decisions through the lens of network effects, considering joining or leaving networks.
    • This includes choices like college, location, and even skills, which connect you to specific groups. Transcript: Sam Parr Hung out with my friend James Currier. We did a podcast together. It’s going to come out soon. He has this one bit that I just really liked. So he’s all about, his fund is called NFX as in network effects. He’s all about network effects. Like nobody on earth knows more about network effects than this guy. And he has this great blog post and this thing that we talked about, which is called like your life on network effects. I hadn’t really thought of it this way, but he, the contrarian thing he said was he was talking about leaving San Francisco. We had, we had a bunch of friends who we used to hang out with that have moved out of San Francisco during COVID. Cause they were like, Oh, everything’s online now. So we’ll just leave. And then it’ll be like good for taxes. And he goes, he’s like, look, everybody, you know, personal choices, do whatever it’s like, but if you wanted to be here and you left because of taxes and because you thought it’s the Same, it’s same, same on zoom. He’s like, that’s idiotic. You know, you could, he’s like, you’re just going to save 13% on your taxes and you’re going to lose 13. You’re going to make 13 X less money, uh, on that same, just on that same money saving decision. Shaan Puri Moving for taxes. When someone tells me they do that, I think they’re stupid. I think that’s a foolish thing to do. Do you agree or disagree? There’s a lot of people that do that. I think it’s foolish. Sorry, they’re not stupid. I think that decision is foolish. Or rather, I don’t agree with it. Sam Parr That decision and actually several other decisions they make are probably also stupid. But don’t you agree? Shaan Puri The point of succeeding is to do what you want, not to have to move to Puerto Rico. If you want to live in Puerto Rico, then great, do it. Exactly. But if taxes is the number one reason, I think that that is your… What’s that phrase? You can’t see the forest and the trees or something like that. Sam Parr I mean, I kind of agree. That’s why I’m still here. But yeah. So I thought that was interesting. And when he talks about your life on network effects, his idea is basically, if you could take all your decisions you make and instead of thinking of them as things you did or decisions You made or just like events in your life, if you looked at it as you either joined a network or you left a network, you either added into a network or you subtracted out of a network. So for example, where you choose to go to college, it’s not just a college. It’s not just an education. You’re picking a network to join. I joined the Duke alumni network and that alumni network is going to have certain benefits down the road. It’s also going to lead me to maybe certain careers that that network tends to go towards, which is like Wall Street finance, things like that. You know, where you live obviously is a huge one. So like what city you live, if you join the Hollywood network, you’re going to be joining a certain lifestyle, certain career opportunities, et cetera. And when you leave, you are opting out of that network or you’re getting yourself away from the white hot center of the network, even just skills you pick. Like, let’s say you want to learn, you learn marketing. Well, you’re actually joining a network of other people who know marketing and that’s who you’re going to hang out with. Those are the opportunities you’re going to get. And that’s where the the sort of the next decisions are going to be heavily heavily influenced by the um the network decisions that you make the initial network decisions that you’re Shaan Puri Making and why what like did that make you reflect on the decision that you’ve made or thinking that you did the right thing or the wrong thing or how will you implement this because that Like makes me i don’t’t regret, I don’t regret, I moved mostly because of family, or only because of family, but I do wish I was in California. Sam Parr Which is its own network, right? You like opted into your own, like, you know, your own par family, you know, network or whatever, you know, you opted into, you opted to like, be more dense there, and have more connectivity There, which is going to be great for your family raising and all that. But you opted out of the tech network of San Francisco, let’s say. Shaan Puri Which, by the way, if I could live anywhere, like if family weren’t a thing, it would either be an SF or a suburb like 20 minutes away. But I would live there in a heartbeat. (Time 0:19:42)
  • Extreme Focus
    • James Altucher, a successful newsletter writer, stays home for weeks at a time, leveraging services like DoorDash for his needs.
    • This illustrates his unique personality and approach to life. Transcript: Shaan Puri Right. I have another person. So basically, I don’t speak at conferences unless my wife wants to come with me if neville wants to join and do it with me and if nick gray will attend those those three things have to happen You know i need my entourage all three or one of the three all three all three have to happen all three have to happen that’s your like i only green skittles that’s your rider that’s my rider Is sarah’s got to I don’t like traveling, but I like to travel if it’s for a conference because I love going somewhere and the first two days are conferences. The next few days are fun because you meet someone at the event who’s going to tell you cool shit to do. And also, I just like doing something with my friends. And so I went and spoke at this thing called the newsletter conference, which was pretty wild because like 15 of my ex-employees were speakers and are all like, many of them are millionaires Or making a whole lot of money doing newsletter stuff. And that like made me feel proud. But I met James Altucher. You know who James Altucher is? Yeah, he’s been on the podcast. Sam Parr He’s a, what is his, like he’s an author? What’s his like title in life? Shaan Puri I think James might be the craziest person that I’ve met in the last six months. So if you Google James Altucher, you’re going to see that he’s like, the thing that sticks out is his hair. He’s got this like crazy haircut. And in real life, he sort of looks like a rock star. Like he kind of like, like he’s not trying, but he looks so different that he looks super cool and awesome. And so James is the type of guy who… Well, he’s got the story. I don’t know his full background, but he’s created a startup, made a bunch of money, blew it all on stocks or bad investments, did another startup, made a bunch of money, lost it all. And now I think he’s on mountain three. And he has a thing called Choose Yourself Financial. It started out just as a newsletter where he would just write about his interesting opinions and things like that. He sold a portion or all of it to Agora. Agora is a large newsletter business that makes something like $1 or $2 billion a year in revenue. I don’t like their company. I think that they have like 15 or 20. It started in the 80s as one newsletter. Now they have like 20 and they acquire other people’s newsletters. And I think they do a lot of nefarious stuff. So I’m not trying to promote those guys. But now they’re not all bad. And he sold to them. And now he’s their highest or one of their highest earning newsletters. And his newsletter, Choose Yourself Financial, did $130 million in revenue last year. And it’s like crazy. The numbers are crazy. Very profitable. And he said all this on stage. Everything I’m saying is public. And so I hung out with him and his wife. And we had a great time. And he said one thing to me. He said it like in passing. And I was like, the record skipped. He was like, yeah, you know, like I love DoorDash because, you know, like I don’t leave my house for like three or six weeks at a time. And if I need a pen, they just bring me a pen. And I was like, what? Did you just say that you don’t leave your house for like three to six weeks at a time? And he told me, he’s like, yeah, like sometimes I just get so into something that I literally will not step foot outside for like four weeks at a time. And so he, but he, but he said like five other things like that, where he just was so fascinating. And it was proof that, you know how like, I think it was in the Peter Thiel, what’s his book called? Zero to one. Zero to one. He said, there’s like a graph where it’s like a bar chart or something like that, where it’s like extreme success means that you’re likely going to have extreme personality traits and Those extreme personality traits like come off as weird or undesirable in many settings you know you could be like elon which means you’re going to be kind of mean sometimes you could Be like albert einstein which means you’re like forgetful all the time and like wear two different socks or whatever like he like has these examples James is that guy. He very much has the brilliant but forgetful and quirky scientist vibe to him. And it was just wild seeing him just have normal conversations because his opinion and the way he looked at things was 100% fresh and different from how I looked at the most like normal Things. For example, when he said he didn’t leave his house, I was like, that’s horrible. He’s like, he was shocked that I was criticizing him. And which is pretty funny, because, you know, he should live his life and be happy. (Time 0:25:40)
  • The Side Quest King
    • S.H. Manat, a VC, pursues unique side quests like becoming a travel agent and exploring metaverse weddings.
    • He prioritizes personal amusement and exploration. Transcript: Sam Parr And is still. Okay, gotcha. All right, I like that one, James. I have another one that’s less weird, but more side quest-y. So, S.H Manat, who came on the podcast recently. You can see his episode. The numbers crushed. Yeah, he did really well. So, he was at the dinner, too. And S.H tells these stories and you’re just kind of like, if you just listen to the stories, you’d be like, wow, this guy is fascinating. You would never know his day job because S.H is an epic side quester. So his day job is he’s a VC. He invests in fintech companies. That’s his job. And there’s a lot of that. The weird thing is that if you listen to him, he’s like, oh yeah, I, um, I’m taking like, like courses or like whatever. I’m getting certified to be a travel agent now so I can access all these travel discounts. He’s been doing that. He’s like, yeah, I actually looked at buying the ambassadorship position, uh, for like being an ambassador of a country because it has these perks. He’s like, basically like your friend who’s like really good with credit card points, but for everything, including credit card points, by the way, I think on the podcast, he gave us Like a pretty good credit card point tip, but he just has like all these epic side quests he’s gone down over and over again. He’s like, yeah, I got married in the metaverse and like Taco Bell sponsored it. Oh, and hey, guess what else I did? You know, started this auction company to go and buy and sell like the domain endings like dot app and dot photography like that was his business it’s like these aren’t even normal even His businesses aren’t normal businesses they’re just weird side quests that made money i think his side is thistle his is that it yeah thistle was another one he He’s like, oh, yeah. So the story he told on the thing was he was like, I was interested in this food delivery space. It got really hot, Sprig, et cetera. I was ordering from all of them. But I just thought there’s no way this thing’s making money. So then as a side quest, I signed up and became a driver for a month. And I drove around. And it was amazing. I met all these people. And I learned the model. And I realized that this thing’s never going to make money. And he’s, he was right. Sprig went out of business. So did all the others that were doing it. And he’s like, but we could do this other thing, Thistle. And I got my friend to do it. And now Thistle is like, I forgot what he said. What did he say on the podcast? It’s like an absurd number. I think it was a hundred million plus, a hundred million plus of revenue. And I was like, wow, this guy is just always on side quest so for example he was talking about he’s like um he’s like oh yeah uh mr beast posted this video about like i i’m on this abandoned Island or whatever like this this abandoned island i’m the only one here and there’s nothing here blah blah blah and the chill was like hold on i’ve been to that island but but without The video, like, and he’s like, no, wait, that’s not abandoned. There’s like a, there’s a bar like three minutes away from where he is. And there’s this motel. So he tweeted about this. And then Jimmy calls him and is like, hey, man, like, what are you talking about? Like, that is an abandoned island. He’s like, no, it’s not. It’s three minutes away from a bar. Like, he’s like, no, technically it’s abandoned if you look at XYZ. And I was like, this guy just constantly gets himself into situations. Shaan Puri Wait, Jimmy called him because Jimmy felt his integrity was under attack? Sam Parr Yeah, and he was like, did you give Jimmy my number? I was like, no, I didn’t even know this happened. Shaan Puri And Shielded backed down. He was like, no, it’s not an abandoned island. Or were they both right? Sam Parr He’s like, where are you worth? He’s like, look at it. Three minutes away. There’s a place. There’s a pub. He’s like, it’s not abandoned. And I think technically maybe there was something where it’s like the border or like, I don’t know. I don’t know what this, I didn’t get into the details. Obviously, I don’t give a shit. But I just thought it was amazing that there’s people that just do things for their own amusement. And I’ll bring this home with a little TikTok I saw. And And it was the TikTok was, there’s like this TikTok had gone viral. And I’m glad it went viral because it means that other people are similarly really attracted to people who just do shit for their own amusement and really for no other reason. Like, I forgot the name of the dance, but it was basically like, shout out to my boy, Willie, for spending all of our bachelor party weekend trying to learn this dance. And I guess there’s like some dance and there’s like this, he’s like this awkward looking white guy. And there’s like two black friends trying to show him how to do this dance. And it’s just like everywhere they went during the bachelor party, he’s just practicing this dance just to like, see if he can learn it in a weekend. And like, he starts off really bad. And by the end, he’s actually like pretty good at the end of the weekend and then they cut to the to the wedding and he’s doing the same dance just for fun on the on his own on the side of the Dance floor like not part of a performance just like just doing his thing over there and um i respect that i think i respect that more than i respect like someone’s achievements in life. I kind of respect people that that value their own amusement as the highest order bit. And I think Sheil is an example of that. Like the shit he does, he’s not doing it because there’s some outcome he’s seeking. He’s just amused by it and therefore like follows it. And he ends up in these situations that at the end become really good stories. But I don’t think that’s why he’s doing it. I (Time 0:31:05)
  • Follow Your Amusement
    • Follow your genuine interests, regardless of popularity, like Sheil Mohanty, who was featured in a Justin Bieber music video.
    • His diverse experiences stem from pursuing personal amusement. Transcript: Shaan Puri Think, you know, we’ve done close to 700 of these episodes. Sheil would be in my top 10 of people who I admire most. I think that Sheil, did you, like, people, I don’t even know if we mentioned this one. Do you know that Sheil’s in a Justin Bieber music video? Sam Parr Of course he is. Why wouldn’t he be in a Justin Bieber music video? Shaan Puri How did that happen? Like, I was watching from the outside. So I think the way it happened was during COVID, Sheil created an online version of Bachelor, like The Bachelor. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Sam Parr I watched this. It was great. What was it exactly? It was during COVID or Bachelor on Zoom. I think it was called The Zoom Bachelor or something like that. It was Sheil, the Bachelor. And there’s a bunch of women that would pop up, and then he would, like, eliminate, give out roses and eliminate them. And then he picked someone in the end. They went on a date or something. Shaan Puri And somehow, I could be confusing all the stories, but somehow this, like, it was a hit. It was awesome. And then he then, there’s a video of him where he’s turned around like this, and it looks like he’s making out with someone like this. Sam Parr In the video? Shaan Puri Yeah. So he, I think he is, I’m watching this all from outside. I think he posted that video, and then he turns around and he smiles, and he looks so happy. And that clip made it into a Justin Bieber music video. And if you go and watch the music video his clip shield’s clip is the best clip oh i have it i have it it’s there what what was it called like love yourself was it love yourself and he’s like Sam Parr It looks like he’s making out with someone but play it play that clip and like watch that oh my god this is so funny it turns around he’s got a huge mustache for some reason and he just cheesing. Shaan Puri Do you know another crazy thing about him, by the way? You know the podcast Startup on Gimlet Media? I think he created that. Sam Parr Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think he did. Shaan Puri He had his hands in it. Maybe we’ll say that. Yeah. He just has had so many weird things happen to him. Let me tell you another one, another person who I think is doing their own thing. Sam Parr So my buddy Furkan, who you know, he’s also been on the podcast. So Furkan and I try to, we were co-founders. We tried to start a bunch of companies together for like six or seven years. I know Furkan super well. One of the things about Furkan is that he is, he’s just a grinder and it doesn’t matter how like successful or wealthy he’s gotten. I mean, his last company, AppLovin, is like a $100 billion company. And it’s absurd. Why is it taking off so much, by the way? Shaan Puri Like AppLovin, for years, it was sort of a joke because when you would drive in San Francisco, they had billboards where they were trying to recruit engineers. And the name AppLovin came out right or we still associated it with McLovin. And it was like, is this a real company? You know what I mean? And now it’s one of the most valuable companies in the world. (Time 0:36:05)
  • Time in Market, Not Timing the Market
    • Furqan Rydhan maintains consistent interest in technologies like VR and crypto, regardless of market hype.
    • His “time in market” approach leads to unique opportunities. Transcript: Sam Parr Yeah, exactly. So he’s been, so Furkan has been early into a bunch of like tech things, right? He’s basically like a hacker’s hacker. So he was really into crypto before crypto was cool. Like I remember literally being at the office and he was like not paying attention because he was buying into the Ethereum ICO at like, you know, 17 cents or something like that. And I was like, Ethereum, like literally like dorkiest fucking name, never going to work. So I didn’t buy because your boy’s a genius. And that’s why I’m a podcaster now. Shaan Puri And he a billionaire and so it’s for kind of billionaire now or i don’t know i don’t know if he is or is it but something he started a hundred billion dollar company i don’t know he’s he’s Sam Parr Not like he’s not like three zip codes away maybe he’s two i don’t know he’s getting close so he got into crypto early on and then when web 3 happened remember when web 3 happened and everybody Was like like piling into Web3 and Furkan was building a company in that space. Literally this company’s called Third Web. And he was just really into the actual like technology behind it. He’s like, oh, I think I can make these tools easier to use for developers and blah, blah, blah, blah. Shaan Puri Dude, one time he like did a talk on, remember the Raspberry? Raspberry Pi. Sam Parr Yeah. Yeah. Shaan Puri And like, he like one time spent like 45 minutes explaining to me all about it and he knew everything about it yeah yeah he knows everything about everything so he’s um and the second thing Sam Parr He got really into was vr so he bought me an oculus just because he was like i don’t want to tell you about this and like hope that you go try it out here here’s the new oculus headset go home And put this on. Okay. Uh, that, that’s, that’s, that’s the type of friend you need. And so I go home and I put it on, I’m blown away. And I’m like, wow, this thing’s getting really good. And then I think he bought me like another one when it got better. And then I started buying them and I’m like, I’m paying attention to VR, but you know, I’m like every other lemming out there. It’s like, I pay attention when shit gets hot. And Furkan, the reason why Furkan is so great is because he doesn’t pay attention when things get hot. He’s like in the hardcore nerd bucket where he’s like, I pay attention because it’s interesting to me. I don’t care if it’s popular or not. I don’t care if it’s hot or not. I don’t care if it’s here or not. I want to be on this train the whole time. And so he was telling me about his – so he’s got this lab called Effing. And he was telling me first about Third Web, how it was growing and how it had real revenues. Now I was like, oh, wow, that’s great. Then he’s telling me about VR. And like, Sam, like how many people do you know that are interested in VR right now? Like everybody who is interested in tech is interested in AI. Where’s your Oculus sitting right now? Dude, where’s the biggest pile of dust in my room? I think it’s back there. Yeah, it’s gone. Same. Shaan Puri I mean, like I did what everyone did. They got it. This is awesome. This is going to change the world. It’s going to change everything. I don’t know where the charger is. It’s in my drawer somewhere. Yeah. Let’s go back to scrolling on my phone. Yeah. Sam Parr And he didn’t do that. He’s like, he would tell me like we would hang out and he’s like, I’m working in VR today. Once a week, I go co-work in VR. I’m like, what? And so guess what? His interest in VR, there’s not, it’s not popular right now. In fact, they went to a VR conference, and this VR conference was like, you know, crickets, basically. And he sends- Is VR the new ocean? It’s the old ocean. That’s the problem. It doesn’t even have the new tag. And so our buddy Hubert, who works with him, goes there and he wears a t-shirt all black that just says, I invest in VR. Huge on the front. He’s like, dude, it was like being the only girl at like a prom or something like that. Everybody was interested in him because he’s like the only guy left investing in VR. And he’s like, dude, it’s actually kind of working. He goes, you know, if you look at the top 15 apps, like the top 15 apps in all of the Oculus store, these three guys over here own three of the top 15. He’s like, they’re printing money right now. Like this thing is amazing. Um, yeah, it’s not like, it’s not the hot thing right now, but like, I don’t know if you can make $10 million as like a small team building these apps and you’re the frontline of this. And you’re the only people who are like specializing this technology, like good things are going to happen. So it just kind of reminded me of like, you know, all the money is made either and being sort of right on time, but timing is super hard. And so the same way that Warren Buffett was like, don’t try to time the market, focus on your time in market. Furkan is doing the tech, the engineering version of time in market, where once he’s interested in something and he believes in it, he doesn’t let his interest go in and out based off Of popular sentiment or VCs or exits or anything like that. It’s just based on is the tech getting better or not? And I think that’s just such a strong thing that’s gonna help them be super, super successful. (Time 0:38:58)
  • Pre-Bitcoin Brainstorm
    • James Currier and Philip Rosedale discussed a digital world currency before Bitcoin.
    • They realized it required an anonymous creator for success. Transcript: Sam Parr Of crypto i have three crypto things for you real quick number one james on the podcast tells a story about uh because he wrote this blog post a long time ago he tells it he tells a story about How um his friend thought he was satoshi and the reason why is because. How flattering. I know, by the way. What’s up with my friends? Who, me? You think I’m Satoshi? No. I could never. What an honor, though. But the thing that he was saying was he wrote this blog post that I, it’s on his blog still. It’s called one currency to rule them all. And it was about one world current about creating a digital world currency. And he tells a story on the podcast about why he, why he was interested in that, how he’s interested in that and what, what happened. So he was like him. I forgot who it was. It was, it was him. It was Philip Rosedale who started second life, which why, by the way, like still to this, you know, basically a Life to this day is probably the best execution of a metaverse. Like they had like millions and millions of players. They lived their lives in there. They formed relationships and marriages. They had like, they have their own currency in there. His own thing still? I don’t know if Second Life is officially like died. I don’t know if it’s still going. I’m not sure. But like at the time they had Linden bucks or whatever, Linden dollars. And it was like a whole thing. So him and Philip Rosedale were like interested in this. And then it was a, there’s a famous VC. I’m forgetting the name now, but he tells a story about a famous VC and they used to meet once a week and they would talk about like, okay, how are we going to build this world currency? And they were like, well, here’s what it needs to do. And like all the things that Bitcoin eventually did, they’re like, it needs to have, it needs to have this, it needs to have this. And what they did was they went to the lobby conference, which if you know, is like this 100 to 150 person conference. Shaan Puri And they, you break went to the last year of the lobby conference. It was awesome. It was all internet OGs. It was so cool. Sam Parr So they were at one, I guess. And their little breakout conversation was about this. They’re like, hey, I think there’s a need for this. And he bought the domain blue.com. B-L He was going to launch it. It was going to be called blue. And like, you know, the dollar is green and this currency was going to be blue. And they had the whole thing sort of like planned out, I guess. But they were like, they couldn’t figure out how do we, if this ever becomes a thing, like the target on our back is going to be too crazy. Like we can’t do this. And the problem was they were like, we’ve already talked about it at lobby. And he’s like, once we realized this thing would need an immaculate conception, that it would need to be totally anonymous or pseudonymous, like start and nobody could know who did It. They’re like, we blew it. We said it at the lobby conference. There’s 14 other people now who have heard us be interested in this. And when the white paper came out years later, Philip called him and was like, dude, I can’t believe you. You cut me out. No way. He’s like, have you seen Bitcoin? He’s like, yeah. He’s like, that’s you, right? He’s like, no, it’s not me. He’s like, I thought it was you. If it was either of the two of us, it’d be you. You’re way more technical. He’s like, no, it’s not me. Who the hell is this? How cool is that? Shaan Puri That is awesome. That is one of the greatest stories I’ve heard. It’s weird that multiple groups of people start working on the same thing independently at the same time, isn’t it? And they had the same conclusion that it had to be an anonymous creator. Yeah, (Time 0:50:33)
  • The Tortilla Principle
    • Focus on telling the story of your product’s unique qualities.
    • Highlight the extra mile you go, even if it seems like table stakes to you. Transcript: Shaan Puri Yeah. So I own a pair of these boots. I have no stake in this company, nothing. I just think it’s cool. And the founder is part of like, I recently became friends with them, but he’s part of my friend group in Austin. He was like friends with Nick and I met him once or twice through Nick. His name is Will Roman. And this company. Sam Parr You bought a thousand dollar pair of cowboy boots? Shaan Puri I think $500 or $600 pair a year, like a while ago. And this company, he owns the whole thing. And he was explaining to me at like… We were hanging out and I was like, dude, this is a good story. Can I talk about it? So he gave me permission. But the company does like low seven figures in revenue. And the way it started was he worked in tech, like at a normal tech company, quits his job, moves to Mexico to learn because Mexico is where a lot of like great boots are made, like spends Years there, like learning the craftsmanship. Like apprenticing? Yeah, apprenticing. He’s like, I want to learn how boots are made. And I want to make bespoke boots. That was his dream was to make bespoke boots. He’s a Texas guy. He’s like, he’s kind of looks like a cowboy. And he quits his tech job, moves, learns how to make boots, creates this company called Chizos. And he was telling me the other day, he didn’t say this, but I got this read on him that he’s a little burnt out. He was like, the company’s growing 10% to 15% a year. I own the whole thing. And he was explaining his vision. He was like, there’s Checovas, which are kind of cheap, but they sell hundreds of millions of dollars for the boots. It’s a startup. And then there’s bespoke bootmakers who are just mom and pop stores. He’s like, I want to be a little bit closer. I want to be closer to bespoke than Tekova. I don’t want to be cheap. I need the highest quality and I refuse to sacrifice that quality. But I want to build this into a huge company. And I was like, do you spend on marketing? Do you do this? And he like no we don’t do anything i just make the greatest boots and i google the boot name chisels boots and like reddit and all these other companies or all these other like forums are Talking about this is the best boot on earth and i see all this it starts formulating in my brain i’m like this is it my friend you have it like the hard part is done like surely there’s some Type of like nerds out there that could help make this company big but I thought I’d bring this to you because I criticized the DTC world a bit when I have that criticism often about this World and how there’s not enough emphasis on product creation and story and things like this. And it’s mostly just arbitrage. And I came across this and I was like, that’s an example of something that I think, I don’t know anything about this world, but I think could be blown up and be made pretty huge. Sam Parr Yeah, this is really cool. By the way, great branding by this guy. So like, go to their website. It’s very clean. And like this like sawed in half video. Like what I like about this is a, I love that story of moving to Mexico to like apprentice and actually like learn the craft. And I just kind of want that to be like a TV show. But the second thing is, um, sometimes the people who are really good at making the product can’t show it. There’s a little story. So Ben’s brother bought into a restaurant or like help co-found a restaurant, um, where they live in, in Phoenix. So we go there for lunch and we’re there and it’s his brother. And it’s, and I was like, so why’d you do this? He’s like, well, the chef is amazing. He’s, he’s like, you know, recognized as like one of the best chefs. So he’s, he’s this great chef. He’s like, I just really believe in this guy’s product. And I thought we could turn it into a business. It’s like, the problem is when you partner with these artists, sometimes they don’t A, know anything about how to like convey that or show that. And B, they just won’t compromise like price or quality or whatever. This is uncompromising. He’s like, bro, like we need to like we need to make this like we’re so expensive compared to everybody else. Like that’s but nobody really is like we’re so expensive and that’s hurting our business. And I was talking to him and he’s like, he’s like, for example, he holds up these tortillas. He’s like, you know, these tortillas, like these tortillas cost this much. I forgot what it was like, whatever. Let’s call it. This pretends it’s two bucks. It’s $2 a tortilla. Most people get their tortillas like 20 cents. And I was like, well, why? And he’s like, because he demands that every morning we get fresh tortillas that are trucked in from Mexico. And I was like, wow. That’s awesome. Why don’t you tell anybody that? And he’s like, what? I’m like, yeah, you should like tell people the, we truck our tortillas in fresh from Mexico every morning. I’d gladly pay $2. If I knew that your problem isn’t that the chef is not willing to compromise and cut costs. Your problem is that you’re not marketing this in a way that actually tells the story of why I should, why this food tastes better than anyone else and why this is fresher, why this is more Authentic, why this is better, why this is higher priced. And so that became like a little, like one of our core things that my little team, me, Ben, Diego, we talk about this all the time. We go, we call it the tortilla principle. It’s like when we look at businesses that we’re either going to buy or our own businesses, it’s like, where are we trucking in tortillas fresh from Mexico? And are we doing a good job of telling that story? And almost always the answer is no. Like the things you do in your business that are like the blood, sweat, and tears to do something great, you take for granted because they just seem like table stakes for you. And you’re not even telling the world about why you do that or what you do there, why you’re different than anybody else, why you’ve gone the extra mile there. Shaan Puri Yeah. Joe Sugarman, one of my favorite copywriters, he was like, I used to sell so many of these particular watches. I forget which company. It was Casio, maybe. And they were like, we, and he was like, we make this out of this aluminum or they were, the Casio was explaining to Joe Sugarman, the copywriter, how they make their watch. Cause he was like, tell me everything. I learn. And he was like, yo, we use the space-grade aluminum to make this watch. And he was like, wait, so this aluminum is strong enough for spaceships? He’s like, yeah, but like every watch company ever uses the exact same stuff. He’s like, so? And then they were like, and then this quartz movement is special for this reason. But again, every company uses that. It’s like, space-age aluminum? Precise quartz movement? And that is what sold a lot of Casio watches. And Casio, the makers, it’s called the knowledge complex. When you know too much about it, that you think that that’s not interesting. And Joe Sugarman, an outsider, a copywriter, was like, no, this is so interesting. And that’s what someone needs to do. Sam Parr Google Will Roman, that’s the founder. But dude, look at his website. You started your story with, this guy worked in tech, had an everyday job, quit his job, moved to Mexico for three years to learn the art of bootmaking. Guess what? Not on his website. I know. Three years of life, three years of marketing collateral that he’s not using, right? Like that’s a thousand days of his life that he’s not putting on the website. Like even if you click down the more tab, you’re right, it’s like more, our story, you go to Mars, it’s like true small business. Hi, I’m Will. I’m a hardworking guy, passionate about craftsmanship. Guess what? Everybody says that. Guess what everybody hasn’t done? Moved to Mexico for three years and apprenticed in this boot factory. Shaan Puri I was like, Will, do you use Reddit? He goes, I don’t really know how to work it. I go, let me show y… (Time 0:57:25)
  • The Power of Words
    • Sam Parr’s sushi restaurant increased sales by raising prices and using descriptive language on their menu after consulting Dan Ariely.
    • This emphasizes the impact of pricing and wording on perceived value. Transcript: Sam Parr We did this in my sushi restaurant. So the restaurant that we started, we started it as an online, a virtual restaurant, right? It’s before DoorDash and Uber Eats, but we like create a website. We would drive people to the website and you would order sushi and like we would make it in a commissary kitchen and we’d deliver it to you in like under 20 minutes. And so we had our menu and we go and we’d meet with Dan Ariely. Do you know who that is? The author. Yeah. He wrote this book called Predictably Irrational. So he’s a behavioral economist and he just happened, he was a teacher at Duke. We were Duke students. So we get in with him and like normally companies pay him whatever, six figure, seven figure contracts to like consult with them he’s willing to meet with us because we’re just like three You know dumb asses that we’re like in like at school and we go dan we want to like drive more sales you’re the guy what should we do it’s show me your menu we look we show him the menu he goes Oh okay you want to you want to make more money um you want more people to buy from you raise your prices you go what he goes uh we go but like you know we thought we could make it more accessible More affordable that was the whole pitch we won the business plan competition by telling people we’re going to make sushi more accessible more affordable he goes yeah but when somebody Looks at this they just see cheap sushi um so guess what people don’t want which is the worst sushi. Sushi is the worst type of sushi. Exactly. So he’s like, that’s not what you want. And so we, and by the way, because we were, the reason I bring this up, we were an online restaurant. So we could literally A, B test. Now we didn’t have the tooling. We weren’t like smart enough to even know what an A, B test was. I didn’t even know the phrase, but we would literally switch it by day. So we would do day one, we would show menu A. Day two, we would show menu B. Then we would look at the number at the end of the day and be like, how do we do? And so we raised prices and not only did revenue go up, but conversion rate went up. So we actually converted more customers and more money per customer. It’s like, oh shit, okay. Dan, what else can we do? He goes, sushi and the wine industry, I forgot the name he had for it, but he goes, they create their own language around their products. And we go, but that’s why it’s so inaccessible. I don’t understand what any of that stuff means. He goes, exactly. And if you do know what it means, you feel smart and you feel like an insider. And we were like, what? And he goes, so we tested three models of language. So we had what we had before, which was what we thought the accessible version, right? The Philadelphia roll, salmon and cream cheese wrapped up tastes great. Right. That was like literally like how we used to write. And then we had the next one, which was language. He’s like, so same Joe Sugarman principle. He’s like, um, do you freeze your salmon? And we’re like, no. Awesome. Fresh, never frozen Atlantic hand, hand caught salmon or something like that. Right. Same roll, same salmon, more words, boom, conversion rate up. We’re like, oh God, it works. This is true. And then we just kept doing the same thing with the whole menu. And it showed me two things. One, man, restaurants should really A-B test their menus. And I don’t think they do a good enough job of this. And B, you can, like the same thing can be sold just with better words, with better marketing. Like dramatically change your business. It’s not like just something you slap on at the end and that’s good enough. It’s like, no, you will get this like multiplier on success based on how well you do this one thing. It’s not just like a 10% improvement. It was like a 2X, 3X type of improvements you could get by stacking these on top of each other. What was your cute way of explaining cream cheese? I don’t know. I think we might have just not even mentioned it. Just put it at the end. And a smooth… Shaan Puri You know the other stuff. Yeah, whatever. Sam Parr Yeah, I remember like, and the funny thing was with salmon. It was like, we were so excited about fresh, never frozen salmon. And it was like our calling card. Not like those other guys, just frozen salmon. And we used to go even further. We don’t even have a freezer in our restaurant. That’s how fresh this is. And then we met the chef and he was like, you need to freeze a salmon. It kills the bacteria. We’re like, oh, shit, sorry. Whoops. (Time 1:05:51)