Skip to content

Podcast

My Decision-Making Framework for Which Ideas to Chase

My First Million

Source ↗ ← All highlights
  • Irritation Leads to Innovation
    • Irritation can be a powerful source of innovation.
    • Identify aspects of existing solutions that are frustrating or unsatisfactory.
    • By addressing these pain points and creating something that doesn’t suck, you can create a product with a significant advantage.
    • Sam learned this from his first business in the restaurant industry when discussing his dislike of food delivery services. Transcript: Sam Parr And we’re like, oh, a conference. Yay. And so then I learned this from my first business. This guy told me like irritation leads to innovation. So back then it was a restaurant business. And he was telling me, I was saying how much I hate food delivery. And he’s like, well, that’s the opportunity to make food delivery that doesn’t suck. And suddenly you’ll take something that’s really bad. And just by like making it not suck, the (Time 0:02:33)
  • Irritation As A Product Idea Generator
    • If something irritates you, brainstorm a version that wouldn’t suck and explore it playfully.
    • One out of ten such experiments can become a meaningful innovation. Transcript: Sam Parr This guy told me like irritation leads to innovation. So back then it was a restaurant business. And he was telling me, I was saying how much I hate food delivery. And he’s like, well, that’s the opportunity to make food delivery that doesn’t suck. And suddenly you’ll take something that’s really bad. And just by like making it not suck, the gap between where (Time 0:02:38)
  • The Yes Test For Projects
    • Use the “yes test”: would you do this project even if it lost money or paid nothing?
    • If yes, you already win something meaningful and leave room for upside. Transcript: Sam Parr So as you get older and more successful in life, you go from opportunity scarce to opportunity abundant. Meaning when you’re young, you don’t really have a lot of cool opportunities or things you could say yes to. So you just need to be in the minds of saying yes to a lot of stuff. Oh, this person wants to get coffee? Yeah, I’ll take a flyer on that. Hey, this person wants me to attend this? I’ll take a flyer on that. I’ll go speak at this event. I’ll go do this. I’ll go do this. And then the older you get, both whether for family reasons, your time gets a little more restricted, or you just get more and more opportunities coming your way and you have to go the Opposite way. You basically have to practice saying no. And so this creates what I call the yes test. And the yes test for me has become the following. Would I do this thing for no money or losing money? And the best projects in my life have been things where I’ve said yes to things that I would be willing to do for free or willing to lose money. This podcast is one of them. When I started this podcast, I wrote a Google Doc and I said the stated plan was probably nobody will listen to this and I’m probably going to lose $10,000 this year in production costs, But I’ll have, you know, 50 interesting conversations with really interesting people back when it was more of a guest centric podcast. And that was the stated plan, but I was willing to go in and lose money doing it, which is a good signal for like, there’s probably a lot of other intangible benefits of doing this. If you’re willing to do it for a loss. This event, we don’t charge anybody anything. We pay for it out of pocket. It’s going to cost us maybe a couple hundred grand to throw this event. And so that’s just cost we eat. And so the good thing, the bad thing is you lose money. The good thing is the event has to be something you’d be willing to lose a couple hundred grand on. Like how good must that need to be for you to say yes to that? And it’s sort of this forcing function of like, well, it’s got like, then we got to have a lot of fun, meet a lot of really interesting people. It’s got to be a real core memory. It’s got to be something unique to our brand. Like, you know, you have to get all these other benefits in order for it to be worth that. And so when I think about the thing, the best things in my life that I’ve done, it’s been things that I would say yes to even if I lost money. And so this year, for example, playing the piano was a money loser, but it was one of the best decisions I made. Coaching the high school basketball team has been food for my soul. I’ve loved doing it. And I make no money. I lose money doing that. So I wanted to share the yes test with you. (Time 0:08:00)
  • Bigger Ideas Make Execution Easier
    • Bigger, bolder projects attract better people and simplify execution.
    • Scale creates easier recruitment, which further improves the project. Transcript: Sam Parr So one is the bigger you go, the easier it gets. So there’s a fallacy that people have, which is that going for big things is hard, is difficult. So going for smaller things will be easier. But actually, whenever you’re doing something that is like a new product, an event, anything that needs differentiation, if you think smaller or you play more reasonably, you actually Are less differentiated. You’re less interesting. And actually, the harder it gets to people, let’s just take this event. Let’s say this event was not about basketball. It was just a normal meetup or event. And let’s say the guest list was a bunch of people you never heard of that were easier for me to get in. Well, it would just make it harder for me to do everything that I’m trying to do with this. It’d be harder to get the next guest because why? Why would I come? There’s nothing special about this. This is true for business too, by the way. The bigger your idea, the better people you can recruit. Exactly. And then the better people you recruit, the easier it gets to do the thing, right? That’s the third part, right? And so having a bigger thing where it’s like, yeah, we’re going to get the most interesting people that have like, you know, one name recognition. I’m only able to get them because we’re doing a unique thing. (Time 0:12:24)
  • Productize Yourself
    • Treat the product as a version of yourself turned up louder.
    • That authenticity makes the offering distinct and easier to scale. Transcript: Sam Parr That’s one of the principles is basically the product is you pushed out. So my trainer told me this one time when I was like trying to figure out what to do. Should I start this company or this? Should I do this or this? And I was just mentioning it to my trainer in passing. And he goes, what do you mean? You are the product. I go, what? He goes, you are the product. He goes, the product is just you pushed out. So just do you, but like turn the volume knob up. And so he’s like, look at the podcast. What’s the podcast? Do you have to think before you go on the podcast? Like, Ooh, how should I act? And what should I know? You just, you’re just being you, right? You and Sam, you just get on there and you hang out like you and Sam would normally. And he’s like, so the product is you pushed out. And that’s what resonated with people, right? That’s the one that, that, that clicked. And then he was showing me like, and then another project that we did, he’s like, that’s just, that’s like you pushed out again. And so with the camp, the camp is basically like basketball, which is something me and Ben obsess over. But it’s basically the mix of like, on my end, it’s like my version of like a TED conference, because we do these little mini talks every night. And that’s kind of like, even my Twitter bio says I’m an idea dealer. Like that’s the thing that I get off on the most is like the sharing of ideas and like wisdom and like picking up these nuggets from each other. And the thing Ben loves to do is curate really interesting people and get them in a room together. Like Ben is a, he’s not like a networker per se, but he just loves to meet interesting people. And he just gets lit up when he meets somebody who’s done something interesting, who’s cool. And so anyways, I think finding something that’s basically, if you just look at the product and you say, that’s me productized. (Time 0:14:45)
  • Building Projects Out Of Insecurity
    • Shaan admitted he built ventures he didn’t love driven by insecurity and market math.
    • That led him into projects misaligned with his interests, like a streaming app he didn’t use. Transcript: Shaan Puri I built something I disliked. So which I think that have you ever done this with the company where you build a company or a project and then you go to dislike the people and the culture? Like not that they’re bad. But for example, if I when I started doing it, I was 24, 25. And then by the time I was 28, 29, 30, I was like, well, I’m a little bit different or I care about slightly different things or whatever. And it’s neither good or bad. But have you really built a project that was like your own prison? Yeah, you can outgrow a project. Sam Parr I think it’s generally usually an insecurity leads you to make a decision that’s not in line with who you are. And therefore you end up, you do that six times and you end up in an almost unrecognizable spot. Shaan Puri And it’s sort of like boiling water. Like you’re in lukewarm water and it just is slow. You don’t notice. You don’t notice. Sam Parr So it’s like, it’s too late, right? Yeah. And where did that poor decision, why did you start making those turns like down the wrong roads? And usually the root of it is some insecurity. So for me, when I’ve done this, this thing you’re describing, it’s I’m so afraid for this thing to fail. And I so badly want it to win. I badly want to make money that I start just like trying to conform into like, maybe that will work. Maybe this is the thing. Maybe this is the thing. And then suddenly I’ve built a live streaming app for Twitch streamers. Nord, I do not stream video games. I don’t play video games. I don’t even watch Twitch. And yet here I am. It’s like, kids, you might be wondering, how did this happen? (Time 0:16:29)
  • Favor Win–Win Over Win–Lose
    • If possible, pursue win-win projects where you enjoy the work even if early results fail.
    • Commercial success is easier to sustain when aligned with your taste and mission. Transcript: Sam Parr If you have good taste. Shaan Puri Correct. If you have good taste. Sam Parr To me, I’m like, if I can, again, one is a win-lose and the other is a win-win. If win-win is possible, then I’m going to pursue that. But it’s not always that, dude. Shaan Puri My point is it’s not always that. I have so many. I went to Belmont University. It’s a music school or it’s a school that has a big music department. I knew so many people that were like, they’re like, we’re going to be musicians. This is the stuff we’re going to play. And it’s like mildly interesting, but it’s not like a pop hit or anything. And now we’re all the same age. I talk to them and they’re kind of bums and they regret their decisions. They’re like, I wish I would have chased the money. Casey Neistat has this funny thing. Casey Neistat, did you know that? So Casey Neistat got famous, I believe when he started vlogging every single day, I think in 2015. He did not turn on ads on YouTube. He thought that that was ruining the art and he refused to do it. And then he did a talk recently about a year ago where he goes, how foolish of me. That would have added up to like $15 million or something insane like that. And he was like, now my advice is the exact opposite. Take the money when you can take the money. And so I guess this is constant tension between like doing art and doing what’s cool versus taking the money. And so I think what you’re saying is true. And also, it’s maybe not true for everyone. Sam Parr So in that example you’re giving, I think that… So what are these called? These are called dialectics. It’s like two opposite… Two things at opposing ends of a spectrum, which can both be argued to be very true. And so you would think, how is that possible that two things on the opposite end of the spectrum? So for example, patience is a virtue. But at the same time, a lot of entrepreneurs would not be successful if they weren’t very impatient at the same time saying, six months, how do we do this in six days? Right? So like you have these opposite things and then you find the way that they link together. So like my favorite one with the patience, impatience comes from Deval where he says, impatience with action, patience with results. And you’re like, ah, that’s it. Exactly. Because if you’re patient with your action, you just don’t do shit. If you’re impatient with your results, you give up too easily. You get frustrated. It leads you to make short-sighted decisions. And so that’s the right combo. And I think there’s a version of that here with like, to what extent do I build the thing that I think is interesting, that I think is cool, that is more natural to what I want and be mission-driven Maybe to the impact I want or the type of thing I want to build, the type of company I want to build, the type of product I want to build. And also realizing that the more commercially successful it is, the more interesting people you’re going to be able to hire, which will make the product better, which will let you do This for longer. So there’s a way where, like Disney said, we don’t make movies to make money. We make money so we can make great movies. And so you want to basically realize like, oh, this money thing is important and we have to understand where it’s going to come from and how this is going to work. We can’t be blind to that. At the same time, that can’t be the North Star. If it is, we’re going to build something that’s, you know, compromised in a way. And I made that mistake. I think I made that mistake of compromising because I’ve now done both. (Time 0:19:37)
  • Little Moments Create Big Vibes
    • Everyone, even wealthy people, responds to childlike moments and small delights.
    • Curated micro-experiences create memorable vibes that money alone can’t buy. Transcript: Sam Parr I got two more quick ones. One is everybody, it doesn’t matter how rich you are, everybody’s a little kid. So last year, for example, you know, you’ve got this room full of people who can buy anything that they want, but what can’t they buy? Right. And so we rent out the stadium for the final game of our tournament at the camp. And they walked in and there was jerseys printed with their names. And like everybody was so excited like a little kid. And so it’s these little moments in between the big things that actually create the feel of the event. And so, for example, this year, we’re doing this little touch where we play basketball in the morning. We got to tell, wait, Shaq, cover your ears. So we play basketball in the morning, and then we go to the house for lunch or whatever. Shaan Puri And at the house, you’ll already see on the TV screen like photos from that morning’s game, like little videos and photos. Were you inspired by Steve Bartlett? I heard he does that, where you record a podcast with him, and then when you’re done with the podcast, he hands you a book. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s a photo album of the podcast. Sam Parr Yeah, which is a very, very great touch. We stole it from K Academy. Coach K does this and they have that there. And so we were like, oh, that’s a great idea. So little things like after the final game this time, we were like, how do we give you that moment that you can’t buy? What’s the fun thing that would bring out the childlike energy in these people? And so we were taking them to the locker room. And you know, like in sports, like when you win a championship, you like have champagne and like ski goggles in the locker room to do. So we have that set up. So it’s like the winners are going to get to go do that. Like, I don’t know, just like have fun. I think caring about these little details. Last time after the event, we made this custom magazine. It was cool. With like photos of everybody, almost like slam magazine back in the day. And we sent it to each person. It took me a week to work on that. Like, they were just like, what do you, do you have a job? What do you do? You know, like, you know, me in life, I’m pretty not a man of the details. That’s not where I’m from. But with this event, it’s like pick and choose the few areas where you’re not going to 80-20 in life. Pick and choose the areas where good enough is not good enough. Like, okay, this is one project where we’re like, we’re going to try to go all out to a ridiculous degree, and they’re going to feel that. They’re going to know that we went all out for our own amusement and for our own, like, just to see what we could do if we really create something that’s special. And so I’m excited to do that. (Time 0:25:23)
  • Peer Leverage As A Forcing Function
    • Sam used peer leverage and a two-week book prototype deadline to force output.
    • He wrote and printed a prototype physical book in seven days to show peers. Transcript: Sam Parr So two weeks ago, I was like, all right, who am I? Am I the kind of guy who’s talking about this book? Am I going to write the book? And so two weeks ago, I decided I will have a prototype of the book. So like not the full book, but like a cover opening intro, first chapter, second chapter, printed physical book to show these people in two weeks. And in the last two weeks, I wrote it. It’s getting printed right now. It’ll be printed the day. The last day of printing will be the day. Is it any good? I threw myself into it and it’s good because it was such a good forcing function. And there’s a lesson I was telling Ben, like Tony Robbins has this phrase. He goes, peers aren’t just the people around, like near you, like just the guy you see to your right. A peer is somebody who has leverage over you. And it’s like, what do you mean leverage over you? He’s like, a peer is somebody who you care about their opinion of you. So they have some leverage over you. And that can be a good thing or a bad thing. But like the good version of that is if you get the right people around you and you care about their opinion and they value the things that you value, well, you will sort of rise in accordance With wanting to be seen well by your peers. (Time 0:28:51)
  • Waffle Iron Prototype
    • Bill Bowerman tinkered with shoe soles, creating the waffle sole by pouring rubber in a waffle iron.
    • That crude prototype became a breakthrough for Nike’s running shoes. Transcript: Shaan Puri And I really wanted to bring it up with you because I think you maybe heard of it, but I don’t know if you knew all the details. So in the 1960s and 1970s, there was this coach. His name was Bill. He was a track and field coach up in Oregon. And he was the man. He had served in the military in World War II. And he was this tough guy and kind of sort of had this like scientist way about him where he was all about efficiency. He loved efficiency. And he was like, what’s the most, what’s the best way that I can get these kids that I’m teaching or coaching at the University of Oregon, how can I make them run faster? Other than making them train more. And he got really nerd, like nerdy on shoes. And so he started taking apart different shoes and he started thinking, how can I make these shoes better? And originally, like the lore or the story is that he was like, well, if you’re six feet tall, you’re going to take this many steps per mile. And if I can reduce the weight of the shoes by only one ounce, that’s going to save you 50 pounds per mile. That seems like a big deal. And so he’s hanging out with his kids one day. And his kids at this point, I think are in their 20s, but they came over for brunch. And the wife, his wife, Bill’s wife, is making waffles for him. And he was like, I got it. I know exactly what to do. So he steals the waffle iron from his wife and he pours liquid rubber into it. And he folds it down, he folds it up, and he’s like, this is it. And this was the sole for his new shoe. And so he used that, and they called it the waffle for the shoe. And it kicked ass. And now I think you know who I’m talking about, right? Yeah. Sam Parr Nike. It must be Nike. Shaan Puri Yeah. Bill Bowerman. Bill Bowerman was the co-founder of Nike. The more famous co-founder was Phil Knight. Phil Knight was actually one of his athletes at University of Oregon. And Phil Knight had a class on an entrepreneurship class. Sam Parr Are they like age gapped by like 20 years or something? More. Shaan Puri I believe at least based off photos, I think he was probably in his late 50s and Phil Knight was in his mid 20s. He had created the idea of Nike as a college student. But at first, when he started the company in the 60s, he was basically just importing Japanese shoes. And he knew Bill liked to tinker with shoes. But it wasn’t until about five or six years in to did Nike actually start saying, Bill, let’s actually just make the shoes that you are already making. (Time 0:31:25)
  • Branding Through A Rebel Persona
    • Steve Prefontaine’s punk-gut approach became Nike’s soul: fierce independence and gut-level competitiveness.
    • Brands gain power by embodying a compelling personality that transcends the product. Transcript: Shaan Puri What I really want to talk about was Steve Prefontaine. Do you know who Steve Prefontaine was? Sam Parr So he was a runner also. Was he like the first athlete? He broke some record. He’s wearing Nikes. Is that his story? Sort of, kind of. You’re in the ballpark. He lost a leg or that’s the Canadian guy? Shaan Puri That’s Terry Fox, who I made fun of once in Canada and they booed me on stage. What’s all that story? You swing and miss with some of these jokes, all right? Yeah. Basically, Terry Fox was this guy who ran across Canada with one leg that he lost to cancer. And I saw a sign or a statue for him all over Canada. And Sean and I did a live podcast. I was like, who the hell is this Terry Fox guy? He’s everywhere. It did not land. Sam Parr The definition of punching down. Yeah. Shaan Puri So Google Steve Prefontaine. We were talking about punk rock and not compromising. Guy’s a hunk. He’s a hunk, right? Is this guy the hunkiest of hunks? So Steve Prefontaine. I think, by the way, hunk, pretty underutilized. Sam Parr I think we can, I think we should own that word here. Shaan Puri Is that what you want to be known for? Sam Parr Is bringing back the word. Amongst a few things. I’d put that top five. Shaan Puri Steve Prefontaine, he was born in like a small fishing town called Coos Bay, and he was badass. He was badass in high school where he just like crushed everyone. And at the time when he was, this was in the late 1960s, Bill Bowerman actually basically pioneered the word jogging in America. So running was not even a thing. Bill Bowerman was like, everyone, you should run. It’s good for your health. And that is when like housewives started running because previously people would see someone running in the streets. Sam Parr This blows my mind, by the way. This is not that long ago. What did you say? It was like in the 60s or something, wasn’t it? Shaan Puri The jogging revolution was in the 60s. And that’s when Steve, and then, yeah. That’s crazy. Sam Parr That’s like, you know, my dad is like a teenager or something. That’s a Jogging seems like it’s just been around since prehistoric times. No, it wasn’t a thing. To me, that’s an incredible marketing story, how they got like America to jog. Shaan Puri Do you know what inspired Bill? He was in World War II and they were surrounded by Germans at one point. And Bill was an outdoorsman. He was into physical fitness and hiking. And he noticed that the more fit soldiers who he was around, they were able to survive longer. And he eventually overcame this German. They were surrounded by Germans. And somehow he conquered them and made them surrender. But it was at that time where he’s like, I realized how important fitness was. And jogging is a really good example of how to get fit. And so he popularized jogging. He wrote a book called Jogging. And it went viral. It was on the cover of Sports Illustrated in the 60s. That’s how jogging happened. Sam Parr I’ve seen a newspaper article that was like, this strange phenomenon taking place in the suburbs of America. People are going outside and running. Shaan Puri Something’s come over these people, like an alien invasion has happened, and people are doing this strange behavior now. That was Bill. So Bill popularized this. And that’s one of the many reasons why when Steve Prefontaine was in high school, running, obviously not very popular now, unless occasionally you get like a freak like Usain Bolt and You’re like, that’s really cool. Well, Bill Bowerman was sort of that guy in the 60s and 70s where people were like, this guy invented jogging. How cool. He’s kind of neat. But then it wasn’t like a cool thing, but it was like a neat thing. But then this kid named Steve Prefontaine, and he was the exact opposite of Bill. And I’ll explain in a minute. But he just crushed all these kids in high school. And then he got recruited to the University of Oregon to run for Bill. Now, Bill is a very methodical scientific guy. And what that means is that he hated front running. His whole idea was, it’s your goal to win the race. Your goal is not to look cool. It’s not to lead the whole time. It’s to do the least amount of work to get the desired result, which is to win. That is not what Steve Frigontaine was about. He said, he has this famous quote, he goes, if I’m going to do something, I’m going to do it with style. And his whole shtick was that he would run the race from beginning into end as hard as you could. He was short and he used to say that he wasn’t gifted. He was very gifted, but he would kind of joke that he wasn’t gifted. And he would say, to give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift. And he had this other quote where he said, a lot of people want to race to see who’s fastest. I want to race to see who has the most guts. And that’s what he was famous for, was running all out as hard as he could. Hunk. Hunk, right? Hunk-like attitude. Dude, it gets even hunkier. In the book that I’ve read about him, they used to talk about his gaze. I don’t know if you could Google Steve Prefontaine. I was giving a little too much now. Well, hold on. Google Steve. This is important. It’s actually about branding. Google Steve Prefontaine posters. And he’s famous for this gaze. He like stare really hard at things. And that poster is one of the most famous posters. If you are like a nerdy high school kid who cares about running, like you have this poster. This guy was the boss. And turns out in the 1972 Olympics in Munich, he did his front running thing where with like three or four laps to go, which there’s still a lot left to go. He takes hold and he leads the Olympic race for the 5,000 meters. And it doesn’t work out. And at the very end, the other guys out kick him and he gets fourth. And tragically, he dies like a year and a half later in a car crash. He was drinking and driving. But he was Nike’s first sponsored athlete. And what Phil Knight says is, even though that Jordan kind of made Nike most famous, that’s how people know Nike now, they say that Steve Prefontaine was the soul of Nike. This idea of fierce independence, of competitiveness. He goes, Phil was like, I didn’t really have that. That was Steve. Everything Steve was about, I took it from him, and I made it into a brand called Nike. (Time 0:34:40)
  • Sell Identity, Not Specs
    • Don’t sell product specs; sell identity and emotion to create brand pull.
    • Sponsor aspirational figures and tell stories that let customers see themselves as better. Transcript: Shaan Puri Playbook is? Is sponsoring baller athletes? Sam Parr Yeah, so I think they did, obviously, it takes a thousand things and you sort of overestimate the credit to a small number of things. But okay, what seemed to be the big levers? Okay, so they fundamentally have like, you know, a simple brand that can be, you know, international. So the check mark, small name, like that’s the, you know, the foundation of the brand puzzle is your actual brand identity. Okay, then what comes next? So then they basically went down the athlete route where they were like, let’s get the greatest athletes. The athlete is aspirational. And if the best athletes wear Nikes, that will sort of trickle down. And then suddenly you have, you know, the dad bods walking around the neighborhood wearing Nikes. Like, that’s where you make your money. You don’t make your money off of the top prep athletes buying Nikes. You make your money off of everybody buying Nikes. And so how do you get them to do that? And what they did brilliantly was they don’t talk about the shoes. So it’s counterintuitive. The ads are never about the product. They don’t tell you how many, whatever, squishes are in the air bubble and how many ounces are on the toe and how many millimeters wide the heel is. They don’t do any of that. And so they focus on the feeling, the emotion, the storytelling, and the simple fact that Nike celebrates greatness. The great athletes use Nike. And if you consider yourself who’s trying to be great, Nike will become a default for you. And so who’s applied that in other areas? It’s kind of interesting, right? Apple, I think, famously tried to do this with the Think Different campaign. It worked. Right. And it worked. And he was like, there’s that great Steve Jobs speech where he’s talking at some university or maybe it’s an Apple brand meeting or something. And basically, he’s unveiling the campaign. I think Apple was sort of on a bit of a downswing. And Steve comes back and he simplifies the product line. But then he also launches this brand campaign, which was like the Think Different campaign where it’s like Einstein and Gandhi and all these kind of rebellious, mischievous world Changers, the people who changed the world. And he’s like, they didn’t have computers, but if they did, they would use Apple. And it was like, oh, okay, yeah, I get it. Shaan Puri Which is pretty funny, right? That’s like the greatest influencer campaign ever. I’m just going to find people who are dead who can’t say no. Sam Parr Make them a deal they literally can’t refuse. And it’s not even a deal. I’m just going to say. And so, you know, I think Apple obviously did a great job, but those are sort of cliche. You know, I’m seeing this a little bit in like the health space. You know, I think like I invest in this company, Superpower, and I think Superpower is going to try to do this. I think, you know, other companies probably in like protein space have tried to do this where it’s like, how do you create a Gymshark athlete, right? (Time 0:47:20)
  • Brand Strength Shows By Adjacent Moves
    • Strong brands own mental real estate, making adjacent moves believable and exciting.
    • Ask: if this brand entered X space, would you already know what they’d do? Transcript: Sam Parr Could you imagine what they would do? And would you be excited about what they did with it? Shaan Puri That’s actually really hard to think about and how to actually pull that off. All right. So if you think about how to pull it off, well, you have tons of employees. For example, my company, let’s say we have 25 employees. How do I get everyone to be consistent with the marketing? It’s actually really hard versus just following what’s profitable. For example, at your company, at my company, if we’re buying ads, you meet once a week or every day and you’d be like, let’s change this image to this other image because the click-through Rate will be higher because we know this other company is running a very similar image. And you just are iterating yourself there to wherever it is you’re trying to go. But at no point do you say, but wouldn’t it be cool if we did this other thing that is just cool? Sam Parr Well, that’s kind of what I’m saying. Remember the thing at the beginning of the opposites, right? So it’s like, on one hand, you have this extremely data-driven, measurable, scientific, small iterations, let the data decide approach to building, to marketing, to acquiring customers. And the other hand, you have the exact opposite. It’s emotional, not data-driven. There’s no scorecard immediately. There’s no immediate payoffs. There’s only long-term payoffs. And yet, there’s obviously examples of people who have been able to do one or the other or both. (Time 0:53:32)
  • Use Proportion As A Creative Filter
    • Guard proportion: too much of anything ruins quality, so balance is the art.
    • Use proportion as a practical guide rather than labeling traits simply good or bad. Transcript: Sam Parr So I think you’re going to get a good learning from that. And then the other thing is proportion. So like Seinfeld has this great quote where he says, they’re like, why didn’t you do that one last season? Because he holds the record for most money turned down in TV history. Yeah, for like the eighth season or seventh season. I think, yeah, whatever the last season was going to be is $110 million. He turned it down. And they’re like, Jerry, one more season. Why didn’t you do it? He’s like, because in art, it’s all about proportion. He goes, too much of anything, too much cake, too much jokes, too much anything. Too much of anything is a bad thing. And he’s like, the secret to making anything great is proportion. And it’s so true. Ever since I read that, I now see it everywhere. Because I was more simplistic, just black and white. This is good, and that is bad. But too much affection is clinginess, is smothering in a relationship. Too much space is distant, is cold. So it’s not a question of is affection good or bad. It’s how much. And you can use that in anything. You cook in a dish. It’s the proportion that matters. (Time 1:01:30)
  • Values Are Defined By Default Actions
    • Values matter only as actions, not posters on the wall.
    • Default behaviors must change to reflect stated values, otherwise values are meaningless. Transcript: Sam Parr Like, you know, ordered something gluten-free for somebody who’s allergic to gluten. They mess it up. And then they were like refusing to like, just give us the gluten-free version. I wanted us to like pay again for that one. I was like, what’s going on? You almost killed somebody just now. Like, what are you talking about? And I was thinking, I was like, it would be so funny to just go to 100 companies. I guarantee you go to 100 companies and at every company you just stand outside the office and you take a random sample. The first 50 people that come out of the building or walk into the building in the morning and you just say, hey, we’re doing a little game, a little test. I’ll give you $50 for every one of the values of the company you can name. But you got to get word for word what the actual phrase is. And I was like, I’m just curious how many people will know any of the values. And I think it’s going to be this histogram or this chart that’s like, most people know zero or one, almost nobody knows two, and nobody knows three or more. And I just want to have that for like 100 different companies because I just think values are probably the most overrated exercise that companies do because if it’s not in the people’s Heads, then what was the point? They’re not doing it. Shaan Puri You want to know what’s funny? Have you seen, you know how Netflix is famous for values? Sam Parr I’ve seen their culture deck, yeah. Shaan Puri I was looking up, but I was like, what actually are the values? You should look up. Sam Parr I know one is like, we’re a team, not a family, right? Shaan Puri I mean, they literally have written out the values and it’s like 18 of them and it’s like kindness. It’s like everything, curiosity, courage, candor, selflessness, judgment, creativity, inclusion, resilience. It’s pretty funny. It’s just a list of stuff. I was like, oh, that does. Sam Parr They should just slip in like a derogatory term in there and just see if anyone ever notices. You just slip in the F word in between courage and inclusion and see what happens. Shaan Puri Reed Hastings seems like a pretty big baller. The former CEO of Netflix, and he was talking about the culture. And I was listening to this podcast with Patrick O’Shaughnessy about him. And he was saying the coolest shit ever. And then I was like, well, he’s talking all about values. Let’s go see what they are. And I go to the website and I see this. And I was like, huh? Like, do what? That’s way less intense than he sounded. Sam Parr Yeah, exactly. It’s only about actions, right? Not words. So the question really is, what actions do you take that are any different than anybody else? What actions do you take that are any different than what my default behavior would have been if I switched over from an adjacent company to yours? Right? So like your severance example is a good one, for example, right? Like if your value is treat people like family or treat people well, whatever it is, and you’re like, cool, here’s an action. Here’s default actions. Our default actions are different than the other default actions. Maybe these companies do have great default actions. (Time 1:03:31)