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Podcast

Simon Sinek- You're Being Lied to About AI's Real Purpose and We're Teaching Our Kids to Not Be Human!

The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett

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  • Embrace Imperfection’s Beauty
    • Imperfection in human creations is what makes them beautiful and valuable.
    • People desire things made by hand with unique flaws over perfect machine-made items. Transcript: Simon Sinek So the end dashes. Oh my gosh. It’s funny, right? It’s crazy. Yeah. But you’re talking about, have you ever heard of the Japanese concept of wabi-sabi? Steven Bartlett No. Simon Sinek So wabi-sabi is a Japanese design concept, which is beauty in that which is temporary or imperfect. Okay? So have you ever seen Japanese ceramics? Yeah. They’re wonky or the glaze is not even. And they’re beautiful. You know why? Because they’re handmade. Tree bark, trees, you know, when you have a wooden bowl, wood is beautiful. Why? It’s imperfect, right? Unique. Things made on a machine are the same and less beautiful. And things made by hand are beautiful because they’re imperfect. What makes people beautiful is not that we get everything right. It’s that we get many things wrong. And what makes us fall in love is not the person who’s perfect. It’s the person who accepts our (Time 0:13:51)
  • Actively Preserve Human Skills
    • Focus on teaching and learning human skills like listening, conflict resolution, and empathy.
    • Without intentional effort, these skills will diminish as technology advances. Transcript: Steven Bartlett Need to equip ourselves with based on the way that the world is heading? Because, you know, like the calculator came along and we no longer needed to be able to do complicated maths. I’ve completely forgotten my times tables. I can’t spell any more. I said to my friends, the most I can do is nine times nine. That’s like the top end of my range. But with spelling, it’s the same. I get like half the word correct now with AI. But again, you know. So what are those skills? Simon Sinek I think it’s all human skills. I think there needs, so I think where the world is going to go, and at least this is where I’m taking a bet, is that as the end product becomes easier to produce, it’s the humanity that’s Going to suffer. And unless we take personal accountability, both as individuals and organizations, to teach and learn human skills, they will disappear for all the reasons we’re talking about. (Time 0:18:40)
  • Practice Human Skills Intentionally
    • Take personal accountability to learn human skills like empathy, conflict resolution, and accountability.
    • AI will worsen the loss of these essential interpersonal skills if we don’t actively nurture them. Transcript: Simon Sinek How do I resolve conflict peacefully? How do I give and how do I receive feedback? Those are two different skills. How do I have an effective confrontation? You pissed me off. Do I know how to approach you as a friend, as a colleague, without creating a massive fight or losing a friendship over it? How to take accountability, how to express empathy? These skills, these very, very human skills are the things that we’re already starting to see just with the internet and social media are suffering. And so I think AI will only exaggerate the loss of those skills. (Time 0:19:31)
  • Prioritize Empathy and Conflict Skills
    • Invest time in learning empathy, listening, feedback, and peaceful confrontation.
    • These human skills surpass technical skills like spelling in importance for future success. Transcript: Steven Bartlett One of the concerning things was I heard Sam Altman, who’s the founder of OpenAI and ChatGPT, launch this thing called WorldCoin a couple of years ago when ChatGPT really started taking Off. And it has been closely tied to the concept of universal basic income. The idea, the overarching idea is that in a world where AI and automation eliminate many jobs, UBI may be necessary. WorldCoin is one way to help implement it. That was stated by the founder of ChatGPT, Sam Altman. Simon Sinek Yeah. I just, again, I’ll go back to my ironic statement before. Isn’t it ironic that they want to do a universal income, a standard universal income, now that the knowledge workers are losing their jobs? (Time 0:20:08)
  • Prioritize Human Skills Growth
    • Learn and practice human skills like being a good friend and resolving conflict peacefully.
    • Develop real skills by doing difficult things yourself to grow and build confidence. Transcript: Steven Bartlett There was a 10-year kid stood here now and the 10-year said to us, said, guys, what do you think I should focus on? Simon Sinek I would say two things. One is going back to human skills, learn how to be a good friend to your friends. Okay, how do I learn that? You’re going to really need that. How does a 10-year learn that or how do you and I learn that? Both. A 10-year learns it, that when they go and have a play date at a friend’s house, a smart parent takes away all the phones. I would hate that the 10-year has a phone in the first place, but if they do, take away all the phones and make the kids go play. That when they have a fight, the parents make them say sorry. You know, go over to your friend’s house and knock on the door and you’re going to say sorry for the thing that you did. We’re going to teach kids how to resolve conflict. We’re going to teach kids how to pay compliments. We’re going to teach kids how to take accountability. And these are all the skills of, you know, what did you do wrong versus what did you, you know, like, it’s not like, you know, it’s not always the school or the teacher. Maybe your kid is disruptive, you know? And so accountability is a real thing. And so I think if we teach those things to 10-year and to adults, I think it makes for a better society. And the other thing is go learn a real skill. And I don’t mean like that, you know, prompting isn’t a real skill. That’s not what I mean. It’s what I said before, which is it’s the excruciating – like what makes great relationships great is not that you get along all the time. The best marriages, the best relationships, they’re not absent of conflict. They know how to resolve conflict peacefully. By the way, I believe in world peace. I don’t believe in a world without conflict. I believe a world in which we can resolve our conflict peacefully without the need to go to war to resolve conflict. This is why I like democracies because democracies can solve conflict without bullets. So the human skills one, but I say a real skill, I mean, like, go do something difficult. Build something, design something, imagine something, write something. And by the way, I’m totally fine even if you plug it into ChatGPT and say, tell me what’s wrong with this. Your grammar’s all screwed up, you know? And like I said, I am smarter because I did it. I’m the reason I’m more confident than when I was younger. (Time 0:32:32)
  • Teach Kids Real Human Skills
    • Remove phones during children’s playdates to encourage genuine interaction.
    • Teach kids conflict resolution, accountability, and how to apologize sincerely. Transcript: Simon Sinek I would say two things. One is going back to human skills, learn how to be a good friend to your friends. Okay, how do I learn that? You’re going to really need that. How does a 10-year learn that or how do you and I learn that? Both. A 10-year learns it, that when they go and have a play date at a friend’s house, a smart parent takes away all the phones. I would hate that the 10-year has a phone in the first place, but if they do, take away all the phones and make the kids go play. That when they have a fight, the parents make them say sorry. You know, go over to your friend’s house and knock on the door and you’re going to say sorry for the thing that you did. We’re going to teach kids how to resolve conflict. We’re going to teach kids how to pay compliments. We’re going to teach kids how to take accountability. And these are all the skills of, you know, what did you do wrong versus what did you, you know, like, it’s not like, you know, it’s not always the school or the teacher. Maybe your kid is disruptive, you know? And so accountability is a real thing. And so I think if we teach those things to 10-year and to adults, I think it makes for a better society. And the other thing is go learn a real skill. And I don’t mean like that, you know, prompting isn’t a real skill. (Time 0:32:40)
  • Ambition Drives Innovation
    • Small companies innovate more because their ambitions surpass their resources.
    • Big companies lack innovation as their goals align too closely with their large resources. Transcript: Simon Sinek It also gets the question is, why is it that small companies are more innovative than big companies? Right? Like you think about it, when you say, what’s the secret for innovation? Well, you want to have resources, you want to have great people, and you want to have great market opportunities, and then you can have great ideas. Okay. So big companies have tons of money. They have all the best people. They have mature marketplaces that people generally know who they are, and they’re the least innovative organizations on the planet, right? Then you have little companies that have no money. They’re bootstrapping it. They don’t have enough people. Nobody knows who they are, and there’s shit market conditions, and yet they’re more innovative. And then big companies innovate by buying the little companies. That’s basically what happens. My exit, your exit, big company kind of innovates. They just bought you. Why is that? Why is that the rule? And so it goes directly to this. I think the reason is, is because when you’re small, your ambitions are bigger than the resources you have to achieve those ambitions. Every small business has outsized ambitions, like beyond objectively stupid. Like you look at what they have and what they’ve got, and they tell you where they’re going to be, and you’re just like, no. And yet some of them do. And I think the problem with big companies is their ambitions are well within their capabilities of their resources. In other words, their vision isn’t big enough. And I think your vision has to be bigger than the amount of money, resources, and intelligence that you have to achieve that. And what that produces is creativity. And so it goes right back to this, which is if we can do so much with AI, then we need bigger visions. And so when you ask me, how do you find happiness? I think that we need to set our sights on things that are bigger than finite success. (Time 0:38:00)
  • Gratitude Works Best When Varied
    • Simon practiced a gratitude journal daily but found repeating the same entries less effective.
    • He concluded gratitude works well when varied and tied to emotional experiences, not repetitive lists. Transcript: Simon Sinek Grateful for my friends, grateful for the life that I live. All right, good night. All right, next day. I’m grateful for my sister, grateful for my family, grateful for my friends, you know, and I found it so repetitive that I was like, is this worth it? Like, sure, like every now and then something was different and new. And I’ve come to come to the conclusion, like, if it’s the same three things every single day, good. Steven Bartlett I was thinking about this a lot the other day when someone asked me, think about all the people in your life. And imagine if they were sick. And imagine if you had a billion dollars in your bank and a billion dollars could cure their sickness. (Time 0:45:10)
  • Experience Over Formal Training
    • A senior fireman outsmarted a wildfire by dropping and covering himself, saving his life.
    • This life-saving wisdom came from experience, not formal training. Transcript: Simon Sinek So there was a bunch of firemen fighting a fire in wildfires, right? And the wind picked up and the fire was coming really fast towards these firemen. True story. And they all started running for their lives as this fire was approaching them unbelievably quickly. But the problem was they looked ahead. There was a small hill, which means you’re going to slow down because you can’t run fast up a hill. And this fire is coming fast, right? The senior guy on the team started screaming, get down, get down, get down, and they all ignored him. They were all running for their lives. And he just stopped running and got down and put his hands over his head and just lay in a ball, and the fire was going so fast that it blew right over him, and it caught up with the other guys And burned them all to death. Now, they didn’t teach them that in fire school. It was accumulated knowledge of wisdom that came from experience that he knew the right thing to do in the moment. He was able to read the tea leaves in a way and his gut, whatever that means, his gut said the right thing to do is to drop down, be okay. (Time 0:49:39)
  • AI Removes Relationship Humanity
    • Using AI to solve personal conflicts removes humanity and authenticity.
    • People value sincere, imperfect efforts over AI-generated perfection in relationships. Transcript: Simon Sinek And you go, I did. How’s that going to go? Steven Bartlett Right? Simon Sinek Now, you did everything right. You did everything right. You did everything right. But for the fact, and it goes right back to what you said, which is it removed the humanity. It removed the personality. It’s artificial. It’s fake. It’s everything you said about the job interview. It’s everything you said about all those other things, about all the resumes, all of the pitch decks. It’s not you telling me sorry. It’s ChatGPT telling me sorry. And even though you went with good intention to get it right, I would rather you get it wrong and bumble and fumble it with me and be like, babe, I don’t know how to do this. I’m an asshole. You know, and then she fights with you because you get it wrong and you rumble through it together. And what happens when you come? You’ve had this happen. I know because I have and I know everybody has. When you come out of the fight, you’re closer. Not because you got it right, because you got it wrong. And if you learn the skill and you get better and better and better and better and you do learn the skill of saying the right thing and you do learn the skill, she knew it wasn’t because you Asked AI in the moment because you just wanted to resolve the problem and remove the tension. It’s because you learned the skill for the time that you don’t know when it’s going to happen because you’re equipped for this relationship. And it’s that investment in the relationship rather than trying to transactionally solve the problem before me. (Time 0:51:36)
  • We Buy Brands for Stories
    • Humans buy stories and associations, not just products or talent.
    • Brand value lies in irrational emotional connections over mere product quality. Transcript: Simon Sinek And that’s why companies invest in building brands for the story. And so, yeah, I think I’m, you know, as much as AI scares me, I still believe the thing that the technologists don’t appreciate and won’t appreciate. And there will be a rebellion. And handmade will become more valuable and handmade will become more expensive. And people will want to say that. (Time 0:58:50)
  • Community Needs Shared Growth
    • Community is a group agreeing to grow together; shared interests initiate relationships.
    • Common interests ease starting conversations but true community needs deeper shared goals. Transcript: Steven Bartlett I believe friends are at least two people who agree to grow together. In marketing, this is the absolute obsession at the moment, community, run clubs and brands becoming… Simon Sinek Offline is the new online, right? Offline’s the new black. Like there’s a company called Clicks. And it was started by, she’s a talented entrepreneur and she was in college and she suffered severe depression and loneliness and literally struggled, didn’t know how to make friends. And she, oh, I’ll just call her by her name. Her name’s Alix. But her company Clix, she started it to solve her own problem, right? My favorite kind of company. And basically to help her friends at school, quote unquote friends, people at school make friends. And she did it by taking people offline and taking their phones away. And she would come up with reasons to come together, whether it was running or this or that. Just like, it didn’t matter what the reason was. Just a reason to come. That when you saw the ad hung up on a piece of paper at college, you know, they’d be like, I like horror movies, whatever. I like baking. I’ll go to that. Right. Just a trick. And then basically just, and so she’s built this business predominantly for young people, but it’s available to anyone, but she’s built this business to just bring people together, To meet people without phones offline. And she wants, she has, and there’s a great irony in it. Steven Bartlett She has an app that she wants people not to be on, you know? And what is it that holds the community together? Is it so like, we want to improve together. So we have to have some kind of shared value that we want to improve on, presumably. It’s like a community of runners. They’re trying to get fit together or they’re trying to improve that. Simon Sinek I don’t think it matters. I mean, it’s like, it’s, it’s shared, shared interests is a, is a, is a way to start a relationship, right? Comic-Con, you know, Nerdvana, you know, Burning Man, all of these larger than life events, big and small, going to the football, you know? It’s like you’re everybody’s friend when you wear the right colors, you know? You know, you see people on the tube who’s going to go into the same game. They’re wearing the same jersey. Steven Bartlett Your friends. Simon Sinek Your friends, right? So I think common interest is a trick. It’s a way of getting people to come together. And it’s a nice place to start because at least conversation is easy, right? (Time 1:12:20)
  • Purpose Attracts Connection
    • Having a clear purpose attracts like-minded people, reducing loneliness.
    • Purpose acts as a social magnet, making connection easier and more meaningful. Transcript: Simon Sinek You know, when you say your why and somebody says, so what do you do? You say, I wake up every single day to inspire people to do what inspires them. What do you do? You know, like it’s, it’s, yeah, I do. And I think it’s not the thing that makes you less lonely. I think it’s a mechanism to make you less lonely. Steven Bartlett Just as you said that, that why you just gave, it becomes a magnet for me. Yeah. Because then I know who your people are and I know what to talk to you about and it throws down this bridge for me to walk (Time 1:21:44)
  • Fight Loneliness Through Service
    • Help others who feel lonely as an act of service to overcome your own loneliness.
    • Sharing and supporting can create safe spaces where loneliness lessens through connection. Transcript: Simon Sinek Risks? So it’s, it’s, it’s easy to give the obvious advice, like you got to put yourself out there, right? But when you’re in a period of loneliness and stress, it’s hard to find that, that energy and that risk taking, right? Especially when you’re down on yourself. We’ve all been there. I’ve definitely been there. But the, um, I think for me, what I’ve learned is, um, to put myself second, meaning don’t worry, don’t try and solve my problem, but do I have somebody else who’s lonely that I can help? Like, how do I help somebody else who’s dealing with their loneliness? And it’s the act of service that is so valuable. If, you know, you guys are talking and she has many clients and somebody else and her willing to admit that I’m lonely, that one of her clients might say, you know, me too. Like her ability to admit her loneliness out loud creates a safe environment for somebody else to admit the same. And then once she learns that they’re lonely, now she can say, tell me about it. And then she can talk them through it and hold space for them. And her ability to help somebody else manage or understand their own loneliness will help her. (Time 1:26:00)
  • Use Curiosity to Bridge Divides
    • Practice curiosity and validation to build common ground in divided discussions.
    • Genuine interest in others’ viewpoints fosters openness and connection despite disagreements. Transcript: Simon Sinek And yeah, I think when you find the ability to say, I agree, then you can find community. And maybe that’s what we need to heal this country, or most of the countries in the world right now, which is one group or one person to just be curious rather than agree or disagree. (Time 1:32:12)